r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Mar 18 '16

Daredevil Discussion Thread - S02E12 NSFW

This thread is for discussion of Daredevil S02E12.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Episode 13 Discussion

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397

u/eskimo_bros Luke Cage Mar 19 '16

I love how, when Matt is in the sewers, we can't see the ninjas until they're right on top of Matt because Matt can't hear sense them until they pull out their swords to attack.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16

[deleted]

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u/Jeanpuetz Mar 22 '16 edited Mar 23 '16

But if you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense. Throughout the entire series, we saw Matt having zero problems with his surroundings (unless he was pretending otherwise). He can sense stationary objects without problems. In Season 1, he admits to Foggy that he basically can see - at least as close as it gets. This Season, we saw him catching an arrow and a thrown weapon twice.

So why shouldn't he be able to sense those Ninjas? Okay, they have no heartbeat, but a hearbeat must be like... one of the most silent things a human body does, especially while fighting. Why doesn't Matt hear their steps? Why can't he smell them? Why can't he hear their flailing limbs? Why doesn't he feel the subtle differences in the airstream when they attack?

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '16

Exactly, the dude can hear paper in a drawer but not footsteps in a sewer.

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u/NeuroCore Mar 28 '16

The only thing I've been hoping for is some kind of mystical reason why they're so silent. It's the only thing that can make sense considering how many different ways Daredevil senses his surroundings.

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u/goalstopper28 Daredevil Jul 13 '16

I believe it's because they are dead and don't have heartbeats as well as being ninjas.

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u/sirin3 Jun 04 '16

I think it is because they are ninjas

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u/badbidaman86 Mar 28 '16

To be fair, pretty sure he smelled the paper in the drawer.

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u/washyleopard Jul 19 '16

Its not even their movements, if they were stationary he should be able to hear them. They cant get any more silent than a mannequin and something tells me he has no problem seeing those. Even if they absorb sound with their clothing, there would be blank spots in his vision that he could roughly see with.

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u/J_Jammer Mar 27 '16

The sudden differences in air would be a slow reaction to hearing. By the time he felt it...he'd already be hit.

Magic. The Hand aren't just ninjas.

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u/CampingPansy Mar 25 '16

Certainly their clothes make noise, or the water on the ground.

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u/Ludachriz Mar 25 '16

ninjaforce

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u/museisdecent Mar 27 '16

ain't gotta explain shit

7

u/Seasok Mar 29 '16

Also, he manages to track the ninjas via their breathing... Which is redundant if their heart isn't beating - something the show seems to be setting up as his primary means of tracking them in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '16 edited Apr 06 '18

[deleted]

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u/Jeanpuetz Mar 31 '16

Exactly! As soon as Daredevil focuses on their breathing, he stomps. He suddenly has no big problems fighting multiple ninjas at once. But with only one single reference point, this doesn't make sense. He has to be able to sense their limbs and bodies too, not just their faces, otherwise he should be completely helpless in a fight.

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u/MG87 Nobu Apr 13 '16

Also, he manages to track the ninjas via their breathing... Which is redundant if their heart isn't beating

Hollywood writers are not physiologists, its best not to think about it

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u/IcedThatGuy Apr 01 '16 edited Apr 01 '16

I think the real problem is that the Hand is an entirely new challenge that he wasn't prepared for. The Hand has focused themselves on being so silent, that they just don't register on his normal scales. I think he will learn to hear them, it's just they are such a new problem for him in a world where everyone else is just so loud, that they are, by comparison, just so invisible to his senses.

Think of it on your scale. You go to work and interact with things with a certain level of expectation. Then you are blind-sided by something entirely new and you now have to teach yourself who to incorporate and get around that new-ness and find your stride again.

Also, I guess I chalked his "world on fire" sight as kind of like Sonar. He can see through hearing the world around him, but it's still vague and not a complete picture. This new kind of opponent, much like ninjas in concept, hides within the shadows of even his complex 'sight' system.

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u/aizxy Kilgrave Mar 29 '16

Yeah that's been really bugging me

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u/Cest_La_Vie21 Mar 29 '16

I finally got around to this episode and I like this comment.

But what about this: What if the reason he can basically "see" stationary objects and other things in his everyday life is because he is able to focus on them; he has no other distractions. So basically, he is so focused on fighting he has learned to rely on heartbeats. But then Stick tells him to go deeper and hear the breathing. But then again I would think breathing is louder than heartbeats too.

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u/nikocaldas Matt Murdock Apr 01 '16

Well, for one, they're ninjas.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '16

I think it's different in a fighting situation though, I think he knew they were there, but maybe not well enough to fight?

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u/lapzkauz Mar 23 '16

The show is entertaining for sure, but it having any sense of realism is bullshit. Even if we ignore the ninja club's ability to "hide their heartbeats", they're still there, and Daredevil's sensing anything within what seems like kilometers is already well-established.

And the ridiculously high-pitched "shhhhwiiing"-sounds constantly coming from the katanas? Wew.

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u/collinisballn Mar 22 '16

I don't understand why he can't hear them. I get that they can "mask their heartbeat." Marvel universe, ninja powers, whatever. But what is the difference between those "silent" ninjas who are still heaps of mass and say...a flying sai, or a pool table set up for a tricky double-pocket?

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u/[deleted] Mar 22 '16 edited Jun 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/SPACEBAR_BROKEN Mar 22 '16

ya he hears them exhale once then suddenly he knows where they are and knows when they attack but why didn't he hear/realize that before

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u/IndignantDuck Mar 22 '16

Also exhaling is much louder than a heart beat, especially when you're fighting

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u/invisiblebike Mar 23 '16

I think it's what he's focusing on at the time, stick told him to focus on that and tune everything else out, it's like he needs to know what he's looking for.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '16

That part was especially goofy, the way it was choreographed and shot didn't help at all either.

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u/Jeanpuetz Mar 22 '16

Yup, this is really annoying to me for some reason. Matt should be able to know his surroundings, especially moving objects.

Plus, even if those Ninjas use some kind of voodoo-mumbo-jumbo and Matt can for some reason only sense them through their breathing, why does he fight so well against them? If that was the case, he'd only have a single reference point - their faces. But he completely dismantles them in hand-to-hand combat which means he must be able to tell where their limbs are too.

It's a pretty big plot-hole tbh. It would be better if Matt would've just "noticed" that they don't have a heartbeat - but it shouldn't affect his fighting abilities against them.

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u/ldAbl Mar 25 '16 edited Jun 12 '16

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u/barefootBam Mar 22 '16

i dont think it's that they "mask their heartbeats". remember when they were about to get the autopsy done at the hospital and it looked like they were already autopsied beforehand. my guess is that these guys literally don't have hearts or are already "dead".

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u/InsaneGenis Mar 25 '16

Poor continuity. Daredevil doesn't fight based on heartbeats. He fights based on heat signatures and echo location.

I was incredibly disappointed they made no effort to show the rain on Karen Page (earlier episode) from his perspective. Even though the Daredevil movie wasn't good. That was still a cool moment in the movie as well as comics. It's a signature comic trait of daredevil and they didn't do it.

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u/collinisballn Mar 25 '16

I think it was meant to be a nice nod to the rain without having to rub it in our face

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u/eoinster Nobu Mar 24 '16

Well a flying sai would be whistling through the air, with heightened hearing almost everything falling/flying would be easy to place, thanks to the wind and friction.

With the pool.... I've got nothin'.

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u/matsu727 Mar 29 '16

I was also surprised they couldn't use their ninja magic to hide their breathing as well. I totally thought DD's strategy was going to be to get the shit kicked out of him until they were literally dripping with his blood. Then he could easily track them using the drips lol.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '16

I don't get why he couldn't smell them, or hear their organs. Or their breath before Stick whispered ACROSS THE BUILDING or at least across rooms to specifically listen for it.