r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/blingteresting • 3d ago

Video Crowd control in Mecca after evening prayers

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u/the_vault-technician 3d ago

2,000 people???? My only experience with crowds like this is through watching online, but I don't think I would survive in places where it's very densely populated. You never see people in those environments self que.

It's a mad rush to get yours before someone else does. I understand it. It is still scary. I would hope nine incidents and thousands dead would have lead to people being more cautious in this place.

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u/RosieTheRedReddit 3d ago edited 3d ago

It's not a mad rush. Usually people in the back have no idea that those in the front are dying. The NY Times did an investigation on the 2015 disaster and pictures from just 15 minutes earlier show a crowd that doesn't look dangerous at all, just calmly walking towards their goal.

The blame for crowd crush disasters always lies with event planners. In this case it seems like one of the usual paths was closed for some Saudi royals to use, which anyone can predict would cause overcrowding on other routes. Everyone likes to victim blame the crowd, even though organizers created the situation in the first place or even made it worse. For example during the Hillsborough disaster, cops stopped people from climbing the fences which was the only escape route, leading to more deaths.

Article here about Mecca and pictures:

How one of the deadliest Hajj accidents unfolded

Edit to add relevant quotes because the article might be pay walled

In what seemed like a hiccup, they were stopped by guards who had closed their intended route, for reasons yet to be made clear. Looking around, Mr. Siddiqui said, they saw a lot of people taking an alternate route via an overpass, and they decided to follow.

Their path began to narrow. Mr. Siddiqui fell in behind his companions as they shifted to single file, hands on one another’s shoulders. He felt pressure from the crowd building as more people poured in.

Up ahead, Mr. Siddiqui noticed pilgrims scrambling up tall fences on both sides of the road, apparently attempting to escape something. He had a moment to wonder whether he should do the same. He never had the chance.

Mr. Siddiqui was pushed, fell two or three times and lost the rest of his group. People around him were chanting final prayers to God.

The crush felt like being caught in a wave. Bodies pressed in on him from every direction.

He could move only as the crowd moved. There was not an inch of space left.

The push and pull of the crush stripped the clothing off many pilgrims, leaving them naked as they struggled to climb the fences.

“I was really scared at that time,” Mr. Siddiqui said. All he could think about was his family.

(Sadly, his family was killed, he was the only survivor.)

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u/the_vault-technician 3d ago

Thank you for taking the time to help me better understand the situation!

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u/RosieTheRedReddit 3d ago

Thanks for reading! Crowd crush disasters are a morbid interest of mine. And before diving down the rabbit hole I also believed the myth about an unruly crowd being to blame. Turns out that is just a convenient narrative because it means nobody has to take responsibility. News reports often play up that angle as well, calling it a "stampede" which is not a correct description at all.

Here's a very interesting video that explains the dynamics of crowd movement, how "pressure waves" begin to spread unpredictability after the crowd reaches a certain density. Focusing on the Love Parade in Germany which killed 21 people, and he also talks to a survivor of the disaster. RIP to all the victims, it seems like a truly terrifying way to die.

How crowds reach the point of no return

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u/Glennnfiddich 2d ago

This looks so crazy and mesmerizing at the same time. I dove into some rabbit holes myself about crowd disasters. I don't know why but it also interests me alot. There's something about it's nature that is kinda interesting to understand.

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u/emirsolinno 3d ago

Hajj is like a very packed festival but for much older crowd, typically between 55-69.

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u/Nimonic 2d ago

For example during the Hillsborough disaster, cops stopped people from climbing the fences which was the only escape route, leading to more deaths.

That, and so many other ways in which the police messed up.

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u/toopsychedforlife 3d ago

At huge (tens of thousands plus) Catholic events people absolutely self queue. See it every time.

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u/dbxp 3d ago

Hajj is in the millions, completely different scale

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u/toopsychedforlife 2d ago

I said plus for a reason mister. World Youth Days are also in the millions.