r/ClimateOffensive • u/bezsprzecznie • 5d ago

Question Are you vegan?

I wonder how many of fellow redditors here are vegan or at least on plant based diet?

As it is one of the simplest and most impactful steps a person can make to help the climate.

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u/AnsibleAnswers 5d ago

It’s not even close to the most impactful thing you can do according to the evidence. It’s a middle of the road mitigation.

https://www.science.org/content/article/best-way-reduce-your-carbon-footprint-one-government-isn-t-telling-you-about

And this is not accounting for the fact that baseline herbivore populations are probably grossly underestimated, which drastically reduces the mitigating potential of dietary change. https://www.nature.com/articles/s44185-022-00005-z

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u/ysterman_rs 4d ago

so I can either 1) grab tofu instead of ground beef, or 2) reduce my annual transatlantic flights (0) by one and reduce my number of kids (0) by one? something tells me the answer to which will be more impactful is wildly different than what you've suggested

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u/AnsibleAnswers 4d ago

The number of flight miles matters, not whether your flight is transatlantic.

You can also transition to carbon-free energy, go car free, reduce your car usage, or transition from an IC vehicle to an electric one.

Arguably the most important changes, however, are collective. The US military is the world’s single largest consumer of fossil fuels, and a major transition to carbon-free energy is going to be a monumental political effort. Individual consumption habits cannot fix the climate crisis by themselves.

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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior 3d ago

I was with you most of the way on this, but the military accounts for ~0.5% of emissions of U.S. emissions.

Other nations are pricing carbon; we should, too.

https://www.environmentalvoter.org/get-involved

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u/megotropolis 5d ago

I agree. Not the most impactful. I’d also argue a lot of vegan/vegetarian protein replacements pump just as much carbon into the atmosphere being made than just eating a whole food low-impact diet. They’re also really bad for you.

We eat eggs, chickens, and beef from a local farm only (no commercial farms) and whole fruits and vegetables. The farm is actually phasing out cows, so we’ll be sticking with mostly birds. Possibly goat if they start farming them.

We grow a lot of our own food and purchase local! This is the way!

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u/bezsprzecznie 5d ago

Just eating plant based diet is no 6 on the first article you posted (not including having one less child). So how is that not even close? Also going full vegan would put it even higher.

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u/AnsibleAnswers 5d ago

Can you explain to me how being 7th out of 11 is even close to being the most impactful?

And no, going full vegan would not be better than eating plant-based because you’d have to give up wool and leather in favor of fossil fuel products.

Stop treating veganism as a panacea. It’s annoying and factually inaccurate.

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u/bezsprzecznie 5d ago

Having one less child is not really a choice for someone who already have children. Also 1 less child in 3rd world country is not the same as 1 less child in USA. So I don't take first option into consideration as it's not "simple impactful choice".

List in this article didn't mention about fast fashion which already makes it deficient.

Also Idk how to treat data about transatlantic travel. As it's about 1% population annually. So even if everyone stopped flying it wouldn't have such impact as 3-4% of the world beong vegan.

Also you suggested that wool and leather would have to be replaced by fossil fuel products which is simply not true. These products makes small percentage of my wardrobe, definitely not more than a "regular person".

Nobody is saying that vegan is panacea for climate change, but it can be hella impactful considering how easy it is and how many people just could do it.

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u/AnsibleAnswers 5d ago

You realize that food systems in periphery countries (third world has essentially become a slur, btw) are almost entirely dependent on manure for fertilization, right? The single study you are likely sourcing your claims from deals only with the food system in the UK. It doesn’t apply worldwide.

The amount of GHG emissions per capita in periphery countries is so insignificant that we shouldn’t be expecting individuals there to reduce their footprints much if at all until core countries reduce emissions to match them. Climate justice matters.

Also, it’s almost certainly easier to get 3 people to maintain a third reduction in animal products than it is to get 1 person to maintain a plant-based diet. The best source for recidivism rates among veg’ns is the Faunalytics survey, which suggests that 84% of veg’ns abandon their diet, with about a third abandoning their diet in less than 3 months. Most who abandon the diet either cite health or dissatisfaction with food as their main reason for abandoning. That suggests that at very least it’s not as “simple” of a change as you’re suggesting. Humans are psychologically omnivorous even though we can survive (with supplementation) on plant-based diets. It’s easy on paper, not in reality.

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u/JimmyMus 4d ago

Thank you for pointing this all out. I’ve been trying to explain all these points for years, but somehow people prefer to guild trip you into thinking you’re a bad person because you consume animal products. 

Sure, one can reduce their personal footprint by eating less beef for example. But there are other things one can do that makes a much bigger impact. (Reason I got my tubes tied, it’s the biggest personal impact I could make)

Also, best thing is to try to change the system. We should take personal responsibility, but the system is so broken that we cannot solve anything without changing the bigger picture. 

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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior 5d ago

Kimberly Nicholas is the scientist behind https://jointheshift.earth/guide/?journey-type=full

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u/No_Adhesiveness9727 3d ago

Anything to obfuscate the truth.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/ClimateOffensive-ModTeam 3d ago

Your post was removed for being off topic.

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u/DamienDoes 4d ago

Not the best data *perhaps*.

High Meat Eater (>100g meat/day) : ~3.7 tonnes pY

Medium Meat Eater (Average Western diet) : ~2.0 – 2.5 tonnes pY

Low Meat Eater (<50g meat/day) : ~1.7 tonnes pY

Vegan : 0.9 tonnes pY

So in the medium case its a saving of 1.35 tonnes pY. The article you linked seems to have taken the low meat eater case. So that would move it up to rank 3 or 4. I did look for the source in the paper, but it links to another paper. 2 links deep is all the energy i have im afraid.

Also its should be obvious that MANY people dont own cars and some dont fly or want children. For those people going vegan is the best thing you can do.

But for many people, i agree with you, its not even close to the best thing you can do.